I, Robot, Foundation, Childhood's End, A Canticle for Leibowitz
Post your SF reading journal here if you read one of the following books: I, Robot or Foundation, by Isaac Asimov; Childhood's End, by Arthur C. Clarke; A Canticle for Leibowitz, by Walter Miller.
Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman—First Third
I’m reading the sequel to A Canticle for Leibowitz called Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman. The novel takes place in the same future as the first novel and it begins at the same abbey, but the story primarily follows a confused monk named Blacktooth. Blacktooth reminded me of Paul D. in the Toni Morrison novel Beloved because like Paul D. he has a horrible past that he tries to lock away inside him and not share too openly. I noticed that he seems ashamed of his nomadic past in the holy city of Valana, where nomads are seen as outlaws and murderers. I predict that his pragmatic employer at this point of the novel, Cardinal Brownpony, will force him to confront his nomadic heritage because Brownpony seems to have some sort of political plan that involves the nomads. An idea I found interesting was how the nomads’ religion is almost a continuation of Christianity and that their Wild Horse Woman could be the Virgin Mary. Miller elevates her, in their eyes, to the same level as the Holy Trinity in Catholicism, which also plays a big role in the novel. I really liked the election of Amen Specklebird as Pope because he is a hermit and not exactly a strict Christian. He reminds me of the humorous Jewish hermit from the first novel. I’d like to ask the author why he switched perspectives and almost even story lines for one chapter; he suddenly talks about this nomad named Chor Hongan, but nothing seems to be gained from the switch. I noticed that Miller uses the Science Fiction convention of xenophobia when he deals with genies, which are the descents of mutants left over from the nuclear holocaust that is responsible for this Dark Age. I really like how Miller blends history with the future because I believe that history repeats itself, which it clearly does in this novel. The setting is like the Dark Ages in Europe only it’s thousands of years in the future. I was confused by the genny Aedra’s character because I can’t figure out if she is good or evil, maybe an agent of the Texark Empire to the South. However, I predict that whatever she is, she will function in the rest of the novel and I think she will drive a wedge between Blacktooth and Brownpony. I think that is ten off of the sheet.
Read -- That's a GOOD ten off the sheet! You show your thinking about the novel well here, with some excellent connections and insightful explananations. It sounds like the book is leading you in some interesting directions.
Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman. (Response to Second Third).
Poor Blacktooth, I felt sorry for him because he keeps thinking that the woman he loves, Aedra, is dead. Brownpony isn’t the same benign cardinal he was in the first part and for a long time kept the truth a secret from Blacktooth. I was right about the genie driving a wedge between them, though I didn’t think that Aedra would bear Blacktooth children. I was confused by the many different names possessed by each of the characters, especially the Nomad sharfs. I’d like to ask the author why he felt the need to confuse his readers by switching between them seemingly randomly. I really liked this section of the novel because the story became much more complex, what with the election of a new Pope, his resignation, Brownpony’s ascension to the papal throne, and the war between the new Pope and Texark. Miller can really write a battle scene. I really liked Amen Specklebird, even more in this section, because he doesn’t hold traditional Christian beliefs and is more tolerant of others. I didn’t like that he was beheaded because he was one of my favorite characters. An idea I found interesting was the introduction of a holy war. The political climate surrounding Brownpony’s papacy is tense, even more than it was because of several cardinals’ betrayal. I predict, however, that the crusade will fail, partly because of some foreshadowing, but also because the Pope’s forces seem so disorganized, especially the Nomads. An important scene was Brownpony’s night in the Nomad’s radioactive pit because I think he saw his own death in the pit, and it also explained the Nomad’s mystical beliefs that seem to blend Christianity with some animistic pagan religion. I haven’t decided yet whether I like Brownpony or not; he is an ambitious man who doesn’t seem that spiritual, and yet he is probably the most intelligent character in the book and seems to understand what exactly is going on. I predict that he will die, however, because the Texark Emperor’s forces have stolen the Pope’s superior weapons and will soon be mass producing them. I don’t know what will happen between Aedra and Blacktooth.
Read -- Another excellent reading blog. Your comments show such detail about the book that it's easy to picture it even without having read it. You express some good insights into the characters and the story line.
I didn't like the first part of this book very much. One reason is because there isn't really much action. Most of the first part is a lot of dialog back and forth between charachters. The best part of this section is when Speed is not responding to the humans so then they are forced to resort to enforcing the rules of robots on speed so the humans don't come to harm so then speed has no choice but to respond.
Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman—Third Third
Obviously, I enjoyed this section because I finished it so quickly after responding to the second part. I was right about the Pope (Brownpony) dying, though it didn’t quite happen the way I thought it would. Brownpony took the offensive and personally led his forces back into New Rome, which I didn’t think would happen, and there was no climatic battle the way I thought there would be. I didn’t like how the battle that ended the war wasn’t really focused on, but merely alluded to, because I thought the book was building toward that. I really liked the description of the burning of New Rome and the fleeing refugees, because I thought this part was very poetic. I connected this apocalyptic scene with Gone with the Wind for, I think obvious reasons, and I pictured that classic scene from the movie as I read Blacktooth’s flight from the city. I also connected the Nomad’s of this part of the novel with the Comanche in Larry McMurtry’s Comanche Moon, because both tribesmen demonstrated the same destructive tendencies. I really liked Blacktooth’s hallucinations because I thought they revealed more about his character as well as the roles played by Amen Specklebird and Aedrea. I also really liked Brownpony’s slow attrition until he was a shell of his formal self because it reflected his internal decay brought on by his ambition. An idea I found interesting was how Aedrea came to have curative powers and that when the Abbot of the Leibowitz abbey forbade her to use them, she became afflicted with the wounds of Christ. I was confused by this scene a little, and I’m still not sure what Miller was trying to get at by having this once somewhat unlikable, whorish character become a healer. Again, poor Brownpony, I still felt sorry for him because first, he got the terrible Hilbert’s disease spread by the Texark troops, second, his friend Axe and master Brownpony both died, and third, he still wasn’t reunited with either Aedrea or his children. I really liked how he became a hermit like Amen Specklebird and Benjamin the Jew because I think it fit his character. I didn’t like how he died alone and how Aedrea never saw him alive again.
Joe A -- It's always hard to write about a book if you're not enjoying it. Asimov does tend to be a little talky at times. In your next novel blog you need to go into more detail about your reactions to the book. Mention specific events and characters and tell what you thought of them.
Read T -- Both your 3rd and final posts show excellent thinking and writing. I like how you formed comparisons to other books you have read. Your conclusions about the SF conventions and themes of the book were quite perceptive, and you explained your reactions well.
I robot is a very interesting book. It starts out with alot of diolague but its only explaing whats going one in the story.i thought that it was a little funny that someone would buy there daughter a robot. I liked how they described Robbie, he is a companion to a little child. I just wonder what if Robbie does become corrupt somehow. how could they save there daughter.
The second part was a lot more interesting. In the chapter where Dr. Calvin and the other drs. are trying to figure out which of the 63 robots is Nestor 10, their methods are very detailed. The interesting part is that they use Nestor 10's own knowledge against him. He knows that they are lying about the fact that the field that separates him and the human in danger are just infrared rays. So he thinks the other robots will also dash out to help the human. But they can just sense radiation they can't tell the different types of radiation apart like Nestor 10 can, and this is what Nestor 10 forgets.
The Second half of the book is starting to pick up. I like how they go into such detail about the robots and how only some have unique things about them. like nester 10 can pick up on different types of radiation. It seems to me that Herbie is not like the other robots. He likes to read and is very good at math. There seems to be some kind of emotion in him.
The beginning of this part i liked a lot. The detail of Powell's death was very informative of what he was seeing, it surprised me that someone could come up with the sort of things that happened when people die. After that chapter i felt that the book was boring again with all of the talking that took place.
This book to me wasn't all that great as i thoght it was going to be. There were a couple areas of the book that were great such as, Powell's death in hyper space. But other than that most of the book the characters just talked the whole time. I think since i thought this book was going to be really good it turned out to be not so good.
Im getting near the end of the book and starting to understand the plot a little more. The whole purpose for the robots being there is to protect humans. It depends on how far they go to protect us because there is no place that is ever safe. If i was in a time with robots I would not want one because putting all my trust into something that one day might turn on me.
Joe A -- In each of your last three comments you mentioned on specific detail, which was good, but you didn't really cover all the stories in the book. It's hard to tell how much you absorbed or what you thought of the other stories without more comments. Hopefully you'll enjoy your next SF book more.
Tyler E -- You made a couple of good comments about each part of the book. I'd really like to see more of your reactions. In the first section you only mentioned one of the stories. Remember to do a final comment about the book.
This was a very good book. it started out slow but its started to pick up along the end. There were alot of supises and plot twists. Personally I would never trust my life to a robot, because at anytime they could turn and if there is no way to shut them down then your life is done.
Tyler E -- It's certainly understandable that you would mistrust a robot (and of course, that what much of this book is about), though there are the 3 Laws of Robotics that are supposed to prevent that. I hoped to see a little more of your final opinions about the book.
After reading the first part of I Robot by Issac Asimov i found it to be rather boring. It starts off with tons of dialog between the main characters explaining most of the background information. I wish my parents would by me a robot it would be awsome to have something to help me through the days. Hopefully nothing goes wrong with robbie and he doesn't harm her. It seem like there could be a problem with the three laws of robotics.
the book is really starting to get interesting now. Nester 10 is starting to rebel against the humans. They go into great detail in explaining the robots and what each robot can do. I can't believe that the humans cannot figure out which one Nester 10 is. the only way they caught him was to use his own intelligence against him. Nester 10 is the only one that can differ the types of radiation. so when the Human is about to become in danger he reacts differently that all the other robots. This was a pretty good idea by the humans i thought.
As i got to the end of the book it got really interestig and sort of complicated. Asimov shows the evolution of the robots. The robots are now controlling the humans to protect them from themselves. The robots ensure thatthe free will of humans will never endanger their race again. He never ended the book with what happened he left it up to us to imagine what is going to happen to mankind.
I really enjoyed the book. Although it was pretty slow at points Asimov kept me gussing what the robots were going to do next. I was cool to see the progression of the robots throught the book. There is no way i would trust my life in the hands of robots. Hopefully our future doesn't have any of these problems.
I found that this is not the only book about these robots that Asimov has writting and plan to read a couple more of them over the summer.
Ben S -- Your comments about I,Robot expressed some clear opinions. I hoped to see a little more detail from more of the stories. If you are really interested in reading another robot book, you might try Asimov's Caves of Steel -- it's a sort of detective story with robots.
24 comments:
Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman—First Third
I’m reading the sequel to A Canticle for Leibowitz called Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman. The novel takes place in the same future as the first novel and it begins at the same abbey, but the story primarily follows a confused monk named Blacktooth. Blacktooth reminded me of Paul D. in the Toni Morrison novel Beloved because like Paul D. he has a horrible past that he tries to lock away inside him and not share too openly. I noticed that he seems ashamed of his nomadic past in the holy city of Valana, where nomads are seen as outlaws and murderers. I predict that his pragmatic employer at this point of the novel, Cardinal Brownpony, will force him to confront his nomadic heritage because Brownpony seems to have some sort of political plan that involves the nomads. An idea I found interesting was how the nomads’ religion is almost a continuation of Christianity and that their Wild Horse Woman could be the Virgin Mary. Miller elevates her, in their eyes, to the same level as the Holy Trinity in Catholicism, which also plays a big role in the novel. I really liked the election of Amen Specklebird as Pope because he is a hermit and not exactly a strict Christian. He reminds me of the humorous Jewish hermit from the first novel. I’d like to ask the author why he switched perspectives and almost even story lines for one chapter; he suddenly talks about this nomad named Chor Hongan, but nothing seems to be gained from the switch. I noticed that Miller uses the Science Fiction convention of xenophobia when he deals with genies, which are the descents of mutants left over from the nuclear holocaust that is responsible for this Dark Age. I really like how Miller blends history with the future because I believe that history repeats itself, which it clearly does in this novel. The setting is like the Dark Ages in Europe only it’s thousands of years in the future. I was confused by the genny Aedra’s character because I can’t figure out if she is good or evil, maybe an agent of the Texark Empire to the South. However, I predict that whatever she is, she will function in the rest of the novel and I think she will drive a wedge between Blacktooth and Brownpony. I think that is ten off of the sheet.
Read --
That's a GOOD ten off the sheet! You show your thinking about the novel well here, with some excellent connections and insightful explananations. It sounds like the book is leading you in some interesting directions.
Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman. (Response to Second Third).
Poor Blacktooth, I felt sorry for him because he keeps thinking that the woman he loves, Aedra, is dead. Brownpony isn’t the same benign cardinal he was in the first part and for a long time kept the truth a secret from Blacktooth. I was right about the genie driving a wedge between them, though I didn’t think that Aedra would bear Blacktooth children. I was confused by the many different names possessed by each of the characters, especially the Nomad sharfs. I’d like to ask the author why he felt the need to confuse his readers by switching between them seemingly randomly. I really liked this section of the novel because the story became much more complex, what with the election of a new Pope, his resignation, Brownpony’s ascension to the papal throne, and the war between the new Pope and Texark. Miller can really write a battle scene. I really liked Amen Specklebird, even more in this section, because he doesn’t hold traditional Christian beliefs and is more tolerant of others. I didn’t like that he was beheaded because he was one of my favorite characters. An idea I found interesting was the introduction of a holy war. The political climate surrounding Brownpony’s papacy is tense, even more than it was because of several cardinals’ betrayal. I predict, however, that the crusade will fail, partly because of some foreshadowing, but also because the Pope’s forces seem so disorganized, especially the Nomads. An important scene was Brownpony’s night in the Nomad’s radioactive pit because I think he saw his own death in the pit, and it also explained the Nomad’s mystical beliefs that seem to blend Christianity with some animistic pagan religion. I haven’t decided yet whether I like Brownpony or not; he is an ambitious man who doesn’t seem that spiritual, and yet he is probably the most intelligent character in the book and seems to understand what exactly is going on. I predict that he will die, however, because the Texark Emperor’s forces have stolen the Pope’s superior weapons and will soon be mass producing them. I don’t know what will happen between Aedra and Blacktooth.
Read --
Another excellent reading blog. Your comments show such detail about the book that it's easy to picture it even without having read it. You express some good insights into the characters and the story line.
I Robot-First Third
I didn't like the first part of this book very much. One reason is because there isn't really much action. Most of the first part is a lot of dialog back and forth between charachters. The best part of this section is when Speed is not responding to the humans so then they are forced to resort to enforcing the rules of robots on speed so the humans don't come to harm so then speed has no choice but to respond.
Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman—Third Third
Obviously, I enjoyed this section because I finished it so quickly after responding to the second part. I was right about the Pope (Brownpony) dying, though it didn’t quite happen the way I thought it would. Brownpony took the offensive and personally led his forces back into New Rome, which I didn’t think would happen, and there was no climatic battle the way I thought there would be. I didn’t like how the battle that ended the war wasn’t really focused on, but merely alluded to, because I thought the book was building toward that. I really liked the description of the burning of New Rome and the fleeing refugees, because I thought this part was very poetic. I connected this apocalyptic scene with Gone with the Wind for, I think obvious reasons, and I pictured that classic scene from the movie as I read Blacktooth’s flight from the city. I also connected the Nomad’s of this part of the novel with the Comanche in Larry McMurtry’s Comanche Moon, because both tribesmen demonstrated the same destructive tendencies. I really liked Blacktooth’s hallucinations because I thought they revealed more about his character as well as the roles played by Amen Specklebird and Aedrea. I also really liked Brownpony’s slow attrition until he was a shell of his formal self because it reflected his internal decay brought on by his ambition. An idea I found interesting was how Aedrea came to have curative powers and that when the Abbot of the Leibowitz abbey forbade her to use them, she became afflicted with the wounds of Christ. I was confused by this scene a little, and I’m still not sure what Miller was trying to get at by having this once somewhat unlikable, whorish character become a healer. Again, poor Brownpony, I still felt sorry for him because first, he got the terrible Hilbert’s disease spread by the Texark troops, second, his friend Axe and master Brownpony both died, and third, he still wasn’t reunited with either Aedrea or his children. I really liked how he became a hermit like Amen Specklebird and Benjamin the Jew because I think it fit his character. I didn’t like how he died alone and how Aedrea never saw him alive again.
Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman—Final Response
The science fiction concept most prominent in this novel was xenophobia as directed against the genies and spooks. These mutant served as a constant reminder of the nuclear war that brought about the end of the Magna Civitus, or the great civilization, and so the “normal” humans (it’s not made clear if there are really any completely genetically sound humans left) fear and loathe them. The spooks are segregated to a valley, though some of them escape and form a separate state centered around New Jerusalem in the mountains. Another concept that appears in the book that I think is common to science fiction revolves around the consequences of releasing forces you cannot control. Brownpony unites the Nomads and then releases them against the Texark Empire. These warriors soon move out of his control and eventually destroy all that he had worked for, the return of the papacy to New Rome; they literally burn down the city, which Brownpony blames on himself. I think this could be an example of the Frankenstein complex, though obviously Brownpony doesn’t creating life. He does, however, let his ambition get the best of him, which I think he repents for in the end. I like how this book further describes the world created in A Canticle for Leibowitz, which this book is supposedly a sequel to. The blend of history and futuristic elements is unique and makes for some entertaining reading. I also like the complex plot that deals with politics and religion, even though there is sort of an anti-climax with the battle/non-battle of New Rome. I didn’t think the writing was quite on the same level as A Canticle for Leibowitz, but then again, that is a hard act to follow. Miller seemed cruder and less mystical in this novel, which is perhaps the biggest difference from the first book. I would, however, recommend this book to my friends because it is overall an entertaining book that is very unique. I think I would recommend A Canticle for Leibowitz before this book, but Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman is an interesting extension of Miller’s original classic. I don’t think that someone would have to be a science fiction person to enjoy this book because it isn’t really a cliché science fiction novel. Overall, I enjoyed reading this book. It is a different book than A Canticle for Leibowitz and though it ultimately doesn't quite hold up to that classic, Miller is a unique writer and I never got bored with Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman, even though it is 430 or so pages long.
Joe A --
It's always hard to write about a book if you're not enjoying it. Asimov does tend to be a little talky at times. In your next novel blog you need to go into more detail about your reactions to the book. Mention specific events and characters and tell what you thought of them.
Read T --
Both your 3rd and final posts show excellent thinking and writing. I like how you formed comparisons to other books you have read. Your conclusions about the SF conventions and themes of the book were quite perceptive, and you explained your reactions well.
I robot is a very interesting book. It starts out with alot of diolague but its only explaing whats going one in the story.i thought that it was a little funny that someone would buy there daughter a robot. I liked how they described Robbie, he is a companion to a little child. I just wonder what if Robbie does become corrupt somehow. how could they save there daughter.
I Robot-Second Third
The second part was a lot more interesting. In the chapter where Dr. Calvin and the other drs. are trying to figure out which of the 63 robots is Nestor 10, their methods are very detailed. The interesting part is that they use Nestor 10's own knowledge against him. He knows that they are lying about the fact that the field that separates him and the human in danger are just infrared rays. So he thinks the other robots will also dash out to help the human. But they can just sense radiation they can't tell the different types of radiation apart like Nestor 10 can, and this is what Nestor 10 forgets.
I Robot. part 2
The Second half of the book is starting to pick up. I like how they go into such detail about the robots and how only some have unique things about them. like nester 10 can pick up on different types of radiation. It seems to me that Herbie is not like the other robots. He likes to read and is very good at math. There seems to be some kind of emotion in him.
I Robot-Final third
The beginning of this part i liked a lot. The detail of Powell's death was very informative of what he was seeing, it surprised me that someone could come up with the sort of things that happened when people die. After that chapter i felt that the book was boring again with all of the talking that took place.
I Robot-Final response
This book to me wasn't all that great as i thoght it was going to be. There were a couple areas of the book that were great such as, Powell's death in hyper space. But other than that most of the book the characters just talked the whole time. I think since i thought this book was going to be really good it turned out to be not so good.
Third part.
Im getting near the end of the book and starting to understand the plot a little more. The whole purpose for the robots being there is to protect humans. It depends on how far they go to protect us because there is no place that is ever safe. If i was in a time with robots I would not want one because putting all my trust into something that one day might turn on me.
Joe A --
In each of your last three comments you mentioned on specific detail, which was good, but you didn't really cover all the stories in the book. It's hard to tell how much you absorbed or what you thought of the other stories without more comments. Hopefully you'll enjoy your next SF book more.
Tyler E --
You made a couple of good comments about each part of the book. I'd really like to see more of your reactions. In the first section you only mentioned one of the stories. Remember to do a final comment about the book.
Final response I Robot.
This was a very good book. it started out slow but its started to pick up along the end. There were alot of supises and plot twists. Personally I would never trust my life to a robot, because at anytime they could turn and if there is no way to shut them down then your life is done.
Tyler E --
It's certainly understandable that you would mistrust a robot (and of course, that what much of this book is about), though there are the 3 Laws of Robotics that are supposed to prevent that. I hoped to see a little more of your final opinions about the book.
Ben S. First Third
After reading the first part of I Robot by Issac Asimov i found it to be rather boring. It starts off with tons of dialog between the main characters explaining most of the background information. I wish my parents would by me a robot it would be awsome to have something to help me through the days. Hopefully nothing goes wrong with robbie and he doesn't harm her.
It seem like there could be a problem with the three laws of robotics.
Ben S. Second Third
the book is really starting to get interesting now. Nester 10 is starting to rebel against the humans. They go into great detail in explaining the robots and what each robot can do. I can't believe that the humans cannot figure out which one Nester 10 is. the only way they caught him was to use his own intelligence against him. Nester 10 is the only one that can differ the types of radiation. so when the Human is about to become in danger he reacts differently that all the other robots. This was a pretty good idea by the humans i thought.
Ben S. Final Third
As i got to the end of the book it got really interestig and sort of complicated. Asimov shows the evolution of the robots. The robots are now controlling the humans to protect them from themselves. The robots ensure thatthe free will of humans will never endanger their race again.
He never ended the book with what happened he left it up to us to imagine what is going to happen to mankind.
Ben S. Final Response
I really enjoyed the book. Although it was pretty slow at points Asimov kept me gussing what the robots were going to do next. I was cool to see the progression of the robots throught the book. There is no way i would trust my life in the hands of robots. Hopefully our future doesn't have any of these problems.
I found that this is not the only book about these robots that Asimov has writting and plan to read a couple more of them over the summer.
Ben S --
Your comments about I,Robot expressed some clear opinions. I hoped to see a little more detail from more of the stories. If you are really interested in reading another robot book, you might try Asimov's Caves of Steel -- it's a sort of detective story with robots.
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